British 50cc Racing

Smif was on the blower earlier, pondering the latest arms race in the sport. People are fitting pit bike engines into road frames, and the CBR is the first but not the last we will see of those. The question is, do we have all the 2 valve 4 strokes in one class where the wallet will rule yet again, or do we separate pb/water cooled from the old and cheap "upright air cooled" engines? Especially when you consider that there are damn all tuning parts for a CG over the counter, whereas there are whole catalogues full of bolt on bits for the pit bikes.

And what happens to the 2 strokes? Especially the sole remaining air cooled.


Think carefully and come back to me with a reasoned reply.

Here we have the age old conundrum, of a simple idea getting complicated by race teams, who, by careful reading of the rulebook, try to get an advantage over their opponents. This will always happen, by the very nature of what we are doing.

As has already started, some class 3 teams have turned to using expensive cbr125 watercooled motors, which as standard, put out more far more BHP than the cg125, and I would guess the same amount as a tuned OHC XL/XR honda. Fair enough, but with money thrown at them 17BHP is achievable. Not fair. Our healthy £100 cg motor is effectively scrap.
They have now got class1 grade motors allowed in class 3. This needs to be considered by the rule makers.
Next year, with a baby on the way, and no team mates, I cannot afford to build a tuned cbr motor, a situation I'm sure is familiar to many. As for tuned pitbike engines, since when have they ever been in a manufactured road homologated machine, apart from the madass?

If a class 3 arms race is to be avoided, sort the bikes into "classic/ air cooled" and watercooled / modified.
Put the pitbike engined & watercooled 4 strokes together with the honda RS' .
The rs50's and GPR's running the original frames seem to be evenly matched against the cg/xl aircoled club, so stick them in together. 50cc 2 stroke aircooled in any chassis, should be upto playing with us. (honda rs with aircooled 50cc motor??, there's an idea)

I'm sure there are gaps and flaws in my suggestions, but Rodger would be wise to consider the murmours from the middle of the pack, even though we don't make as much noise as the class leaders, to ensure a healthy future for our race series. This needs to be done ASAP, as teams are already looking towards next year.

Lastly, May I thank Rodger/Fab racing for the efforts he has put in to keep our series going. It may not be exactly what we each want, but it beats the hell out of not racing at all.

Congratulations on the baby.

Re-reading the regulations:

For class 3, 'twist and go' four strokes are air cooled only.
For class 2, four strokes are air cooled only.
For class 1, 125cc liquid cooled four strokes (with 24mm carb) are competing against directly against 145cc air cooled fours strokes with 28mm carb or 72cc 2 strokes with 28mm carb.


So now in class 3 we have 125cc lc 4strokes with 22mm carb competing against 50cc lc 2 strokes with 21mm carbs or 125cc ac 4strokes with 22mm car restriction.

This appears to be a regulations oversight to me.

I do hope the CBR125 engines have put a 22mm restrictor in front of their standard 28mm carbs.

How about a 20mm maximum carburettor size for 125cc LC 4 strokes ( as opposed to a restrictor ) ?

I have been trying to reply to this so 3rd time lucky I agree as I can not afford to race anyother bike not with my wittering bike too plus having a life as such..

A modern class would be very good and get the 70cc rockets away too as being used as a crash barrier to get around corners is not fun for me as this happend a few time by faster bikes not people in my class my temper was pushed to thelimit as at rider meeting faster guys were ask to go around not through

manic

DougM, I think you've got the wrong end of what Pushrodagogo is saying. I think the idea is that the highly tuneable CBR and pitbike engines run together and the cheap and cheerful old upright motors race the w/c 50cc 2 smokes. There may be a few details to sort but our l/c 50 is a fair match with the upright a/c ditch pumps.
Have to add that I've also heard a few comments from people about the passing tactics of some of the front runners and if they decide they're fed up of being barged out of the way and leave there will be no racing

It would be good to open up the faster class 1 style racing to those that wish to graduate from us ditchpump racers, giving people chance to tuned cbr's may just encourage new blood to the sport?

Why was the word 'Aircooled' dropped from the Class 3 rules for 2010?
Was it done on purpose or was it just a typo?

Predictable grumbling cause it aint been wet....

Thank you Mr Ally Rees for pointing out exactly why things need looking at. If a whole section of engine types have to wait for a monsoon of biblical size to stand a chance of running nearer the front then there is obviously a mismatch.
Our w/c 50cc 2 smoke is a good match with the a/c Honda CG+CB engines,we've got a bit on top end,they've got a bit out the corners but, over the season/tracks, it's a close battle.
The w/c ditch pumps and the pit bike engines have grunt and top end,even the bog stock CBR matches our tuned barrel,piston,head,pipe etc etc.............. and then you start to put bits in the CBR .
I don't think anybody is suggesting they should be banned,more that things are done to keep everybody happy and racing,not just the front runners.





















PS: What engine type has won every race it's finished ?
PPS: And the DNF's have not been engine failures.

No problem Mr man with a glassy ball... Clearly there is a requirement for adjustment in the rules now and my fishing attempt didnt work..

There was very little between bikes of all shapes and sizes at Llandow and a great weekend was had by all..

The imminent demise of the classic air cooled 2 strokes and the congested nature of Class 3 means that it is time that a re-jigging of the regs is required and anything that encourages more people to continue racing and to develop the series has got to be a good thing..

Of course it didn't work, this guy's got more smoke and mirrors than David Copperfield!!

Smoke and mirrors ?
I thought I'd given enough details but still nobody has approached me with an "are you......." type question.






Anyway,back on topic.
Has anybody got any ideas or comments ? With 30 something teams involved there must be more than 1/2 dozen people with an opinion.